Have we lost sight of the real meaning of Christmas

Christmas of the past was a time to rejoice at the coming of the lord Jesus born in a stable in Bethlehem by Mary wife of Joseph, born the Son of God, and as the story is told was visited by three  wise men who had followed a star which sat in the Heavens and as it was told shone over the stable where Jesus lay, December the 25th was a time to reflect on this and give thanks, those of the faith would come together in Church even those not of the faith respected that this was a very special day for all not just for Christians but for all of what ever faith, a time for peace on Earth Hopefully, But now a days this event seems to have been over shadowed by commercial interests where by profit is the order of the day against what this day signifies, so has this day lost its true meaning, there is a piece written within the bible were by jesus cast out the money leaders from the house of worship is there not, dose this have bearing on todays state of affairs, I myself do not class myself as an overly Religious person but I do care for the values set out in the Bible even if I some times don't live up to them as I should, I hope they show again on TV the epic story of jesus in the Greatest story ever told,iv seen this so  many times, yet I never seem to be bored in watching this again,truely a great and wonderful film of a Great man who lived and died long ago.   

The old saying that it is better to give than it is to receive is a shortened peoples version of the meaning in it for how it all means. It begins at the level of teachings in the meaning of gift giving and it carries on into poor woman in the temple who had just but a penny to give where the rich were throwing in hand fulls of coin and when Christ was asked who gave the most ,he said the poor woman did.The penny was everything in coin.
Exchanging gifts is always a learning process and commericalization be as it may is always about profit. Wherever currency changes hands yer will find profit bearers in full arms ready to battle one another . But exchanging gifts teachs the very opposite right down to the penny.

 me thinks,yes me thinks so. tis the season isn't it ?

 Yes I remember that story of the poor woman who gave her last penny as apposed to the rich throwing in handfuls of coin,and as to the question posed as to who gave the most which baffled those who where asked it, yes the poor Woman she gave every  thing she had as appose to but a fraction of what others possessed, yes the penny was gift was the most hands down.

EXCELLENT topic MrB.


Apart from the fact that half the world is in summer on this day.....I wonder what their C.Cards are like ???

Quarter days - Ladyday - midsummer - michaelmass - and Christmas days - are when rents (wages) were due - and still remain so e.g. leaseholders.

I think it was the Victorians who started what we now know as Christmas - though after Albert passed - I doubt Victoria celebrated much.

I think what we now have is MASSIVE ADVERTIZING. It starts up far too early - and isn't fair on the poor and lonely.

No longer do families live near one another.

In my family - mum arranges we ALL meet for a meal before C.Day and we just exchange cards - except for the kiddies.

Its an ADVERTIZERS free for all....

and like Mr B - I'm not mean....just NOT carried along in the tide.

I Think you are correct about the Victorians starting of the Christmas festives that we have now a days Mrs P after all Queen Vic's Husband was German wasn't he and over there at that time the Christmas that we came to know was in full swing, seems like old Albert brought us a little some thing over for us here, mind I think we got those the other side of the pond to thank for the Turkeys though, they can go into the woods and shoot theirs not buy one at Sainsbury's or some where   as for old Nick the white Bearded wonder riding on a flying sled pulled by flying Reindeer from the North pole well I think the Russians had some thing to do with that even though his residence is said now to be in Lapland, the idea of an Old man bearing gifts for poor little Children came about through story telling and so it evolved over time with the Christmas tree, Santa, Carols, Gifts etc ,but were did they get the idea of Santa coming down a chimney   that prob came from the days when they used little children to climb up into those dark places to clean the soot out of them poor buggers, not many people had a lot back then so a gift of any description was welcomed usually made of wood etc that evolved over time as more and more people were  able to afford to buy things into the mad cap rush we got today were by people  rush around buying things they don't need with money they havnt got stokeing up the bank accounts of the supper rich that sell the stuff they don't need through Brain washing adverts making their products seem the things to have by those that buy them that wish they hadn't come boxing day.

1820;s indeed.

But to trace it's meaning you really have to fallow how it evolved. The central theme stays the same but over the years the meaning expands as it transends through the cultures. Holloween fer example it's orgins trace back to Ireland.

To find the meaning of it inso far as the exchanging of gifts traces back to the religous footing or the base root foundation.

But that doesn't mean all the back some odd 2000 years. Back befer department stores at a period in time where rural communities florished. to a period in time when creativity florished and a time when hand made gifts were created for exchange. Hence,it's the thought that counts.The ladies of the club and thier needle works for example going back to the 1820;s. Skill craft.

The incentive being to create something special for someone other at a very special time of the year. Festivities.

But than some odd 100 years later the stores robbed it all away. And ain't that a rip off !

 Quite, but the fact remains that its the Birth of a special man 2000 years ago that we should be remembering as apposed to trying to out do one another with the most and most expensive gift one can muster, the act of gift giving I suppose came about from the 3 wise men who came to see the Birth of this man and brought with them gifts of Gold, Frankincense, etc , the Gift giving since is suppose to symbolize this act, and as you say Niagra hand made gifts use to be the order of the  day, hand sewn articles, things made from wood like toy Soldier, Train  or whipping top etc, articals made from wood also symbolize Joseph's trade as he was a Carpenter by trade, but in todays gift  giving its gone commercial can you see a youngster of today being exited over a wooden toy as apposed to the latest  X.Box or P.S.4 and games, Ipads, Tablets, latest Mobile phones etc    how many would bet on a youngster of today asking for a stocking full of Nut's, orange's, chocolate, a penny whistle or whipping top and a wooden hand  made toy   I think Ladbrooks  betting would give you odds of a 1000 to  one no doubt.

Good topic though 

Medieval Christmas


Christmas is [url=http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/Year 7.htm]Medieval England[/url] was very different to Christmas now. The Church ensured that Christmas was a true religious holiday. Celebrations were for the birth of Christ as opposed to simply peasants enjoying themselves.
The first recorded use of the word "Christmas" was in 1038 when a book from Saxon England used the words "Cristes Maesse" in it.
Also of note for [url=http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/Year 7.htm]Medieval England[/url] was the fact that William the Conqueror had himself crowned king of England on Christmas Day 1066. Those noble men allowed inside Westminster Abbey cheered so loudly when the crowning ceremony was taking place that the guards outside thought something was happening to their master inside the abbey. They rushed inside, attacked people and houses near to Westminster Abbey were burned down.
However, some of the problems experienced at Christmas then have had a knock-on effect for us. For example, carol singers going from house to house now is as a result of carols being banned within churches in Medieval times. Carol singers in Medieval times took the word "carol" literally - it means to sing and dance in a circle. So many Xmas services were spoiled by carol signers doing just this, that the Church at the time banned them and ordered the carol singers into the street.
The Christmas crib originated in Medieval times but in Medieval Italy. In 1223, Saint Francis of Assisi is said to have used a crib to explain to the local people of Assisi the Christmas story. It seems that the part played by animals in the Christmas story also comes from the early 13th century even if the Bible does not mention them !
December 28th is a day children may not have enjoyed in Medieval times. December 28th is "Holy Innocents Day" or "Childermass Day". This is the day when King Herod ordered that all children under two years of age be killed. In some European towns it was the custom for a boy to be given charge of a town for one day after being made a bishop for just December 28th. In Medieval England, children were reminded of Herod’s cruelty by being beaten. December 28th was seen by many then as a day of bad luck. No-one would get married on that day; no-one would start a building on that day and Edward IV refused to be crowned on that day.
What was eaten on Christmas Day? Certainly not turkey. Turkeys naturally come from America and only got to Europe after the discovery of that continent in the late 15th century. So turkey would not have been on the Christmas menu of anybody in England. The rich would have eaten goose and, with the king’s permission, swan. If they could be caught, woodcock would also be eaten. To make a roast bird look even more tasty, medieval cooks used to cover the cooking bird with butter and saffron plant. This would give the cooked bird a golden colour by the time it was served. However, if the poor could afford it, the Church had a fixed price of 7 pence for a ready cooked goose. An uncooked goose would cost 6 pence - about a day’s wages.
Venison from deer would also be on the menu. It has also given us a famous saying !! The poor would not be allowed to eat the best parts of a deer. However, in keeping with the spirit of Christmas, a decent lord might let the poor have what was left of the deer. These parts were known as the deer's ‘umbles’. These were the heart, liver, tongue, feet, ears and brains. Mixed with whatever else a cook could get, they were made into a pie. Therefore, the poor would eat ‘umble pie’. Nowadays, if you have taken a tumble in life and have to live a standard of life you would not usually be used to, it is said that you are having to eat ‘humble pie’.
Mince pies are a tradition now for Christmas. In Medieval England a large mince pie was always baked. However, they were filled with all sorts of shredded meat along with spices and fruit. This recipe only changed in Victorian times when the shredded meat was left out.
It was also believed that if you made a wish with the first bite of your first mince pie, your  wish would come true. If you also refused the first mince pie someone offered you over Christmas, you would then suffer bad luck.
Christmas puddings in Medieval England were spicy porridge and known as "frumenty". This was considered a real treat. It was made of thick porridge (or boiled wheat). Currants and dried fruit were stirred in. The yolks of eggs were also added and, if available, spices such as cinnamon and nutmeg. The mixture was left to cool and set before being served.
A less than Christian practice at this time and found only really in the countryside was the practice of killing a wild boar, cutting off its head, and offering it to the goddess of farming so that you would have a good crop in the following year.
Christmas Day was also a "quarter day". This meant that the poor had to pay their rent on this day!
"Mumming" was also practiced at Christmas. This was where actors performed plays and dances in villages or castles. Mystery plays were also performed in which the story of Christ was told. King Herod would be in a mystery play and he would be the equivalent of a ‘baddie’ in a modern pantomime.
Boxing Day has traditionally been associated with the rich giving gifts to the poor in boxes. This is not strictly true. On Boxing Day, the poor did receive money from their masters but in hollow clay pots with a slit in the top. These had to be broken to get the money out. These small clay pots were nicknamed "piggies". As a result, we now have piggy banks for collecting money in.


Just got this from the Internet......

Christmas
Christmas is marked on the 25 December (7 January for Orthodox Christians).
The Holy Family, Mary and Joseph with the baby Jesus ©
Christmas is a Christian holy day that marks the birth of Jesus, the son of God.
The story of Christmas
Jesus' birth, known as the nativity, is described in the New Testament of the Bible.
The Gospels of Matthew and Luke give different accounts. It is from them that the nativity story is pieced together.
Both accounts tell us that Jesus was born to a woman called Mary who was engaged to Joseph, a carpenter. The Gospels state that Mary was a virgin when she became pregnant.
In Luke's account Mary was visited by an angel who brought the message that she would give birth to God's son. According to Matthew's account, Joseph was visited by an angel who persuaded him to marry Mary rather than send her away or expose her pregnancy.
Matthew tells us about some wise men who followed a star that led them to Jesus' birthplace and presented him with gifts of gold, frankincense and myrrh. Luke tells how shepherds were led to Bethlehem by an angel.
According to tradition, Joseph and Mary travelled to Bethlehem shortly before Jesus' birth. Joseph had been ordered to take part in a census in his home town of Bethlehem.
All Jewish people had to be counted so the Roman Emperor could determine how much money to collect from them in tax. Those who had moved away from their family homes, like Joseph, had to return to have their names entered in the Roman records.
Joseph and Mary set off on the long, arduous 90-mile journey from Nazareth along the valley of the River Jordan, past Jerusalem to Bethlehem. Mary travelled on a donkey to conserve her energy for the birth.
But when they arrived in Bethlehem the local inn was already full with people returning for the census. The innkeeper let them stay in the rock cave below his house which was used as a stable for his animals.
It was here, next to the noise and filth of the animals, that Mary gave birth to her son and laid him in a manger.
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Date of Christmas and precursors
The first Christmas
Candles and fires have been lit at mid-winter celebrations for thousands of years ©
The Gospels do not mention the date of Jesus' birth. It was not until the 4th century AD that Pope Julius I set 25th December as the date for Christmas. This was an attempt to Christianise the Pagan celebrations that already took place at this time of year. By 529, 25th December had become a civil holiday and by 567 the twelve days from 25th December to the Epiphany were public holidays.
Christmas is not only a Christian festival. The celebration has roots in the Jewish holiday of Hanukkah, the festivals of the ancient Greeks, the beliefs of the Druids and the folk customs of Europe.
Midwinter celebrations
Christmas comes just after the middle of winter. The sun is strengthening and the days are beginning to grow longer. For people throughout history this has been a time of feasting and celebration.
Ancient people were hunters and spent most of their time outdoors. The seasons and weather played a very important part in their lives and because of this they had a great reverence for, and even worshipped, the sun. The Norsemen of Northern Europe saw the sun as a wheel that changed the seasons. It was from the word for this wheel, houl, that the word yule (another name for Christmas) is thought to have come. At Winter Solstice the Norsemen lit bonfires, told stories and drank sweet ale.
The Romans also held a festival to mark the Winter Solstice. Saturnalia (from the God Saturn) ran for seven days from 17th December. It was a time when the ordinary rules were turned upside down. Men dressed as women and masters dressed as servants. The festival also involved processions, decorating houses with greenery, lighting candles and giving presents.
Holly ©
Holly is one of the symbols most associated with Christmas. Its religious significance pre-dates Christianity. It was previously associated with the Sun God and was important in Pagan customs. Some ancient religions used holly for protection. They decorated doors and windows with it in the belief it would ward off evil spirits.
Before Christianity came to the British Isles the Winter Solstice was held on the shortest day of the year (21st December). The Druids (Celtic priests) would cut the mistletoe that grew on the oak tree and give it as a blessing. Oaks were seen as sacred and the winter fruit of the mistletoe was a symbol of life in the dark winter months.
Judaism was the main religion of Israel at the time of Jesus' birth. The Jewish midwinter festival of Hanukkah marks an important part of Jewish history. It is eight days long and on each day a candle is lit. It is a time of remembrance, celebration of light, a time to give gifts and have fun.
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Historical celebration
Christmas carols have existed since medieval times. This painting is from the mid to late 19th century ©
Christmas has always been a strange combination of Christian, Pagan and folk traditions. As far back as 389 AD, St Gregory Nazianzen (one of the Four Fathers of the Greek Church) warned against 'feasting in excess, dancing and crowning the doors'. The Church was already finding it hard to bury the Pagan remnants of the midwinter festival.
Medieval
During the medieval period (c.400AD - c.1400AD) Christmas was a time for feasting and merrymaking. It was a predominantly secular festival but contained some religious elements.
Medieval Christmas lasted 12 days from Christmas Eve on 24th December, until the Epiphany (Twelfth Night) on 6th January. Epiphany comes from a Greek word that means 'to show', meaning the time when Jesus was revealed to the world. Even up until the 1800s the Epiphany was at least as big a celebration as Christmas day.
Many Pagan traditions had been brought to Britain by the invading Roman soldiers. These included covering houses in greenery and bawdy partying that had its roots in the unruly festival of Saturnalia.
The Church attempted to curb Pagan practices and popular customs were given Christian meaning. Carols that had started as Pagan songs for celebrations such as midsummer and harvest were taken up by the Church. By the late medieval period the singing of Christmas carols had become a tradition.
The Church also injected Christian meaning into the use of holly, making it a symbol for Jesus' crown of thorns. According to one legend, the holly's branches were woven into a painful crown and placed on Christ's head by Roman soldiers who mocked him, chanting: "Hail King of the Jews." Holly berries used to be white but Christ's blood left them with a permanent crimson stain.
Another legend is about a little orphan boy who was living with shepherds when the angels came to announce Jesus' birth. The child wove a crown of holly for the newborn baby's head. But when he presented it, he became ashamed of his gift and started to cry. Miraculously the baby Jesus reached out and touched the crown. It began to sparkle and the orphan's tears turned into beautiful scarlet berries.
Ban on Christmas
From the middle of the 17th century until the early 18th century the Christian Puritans suppressed Christmas celebrations in Europe and America.
The Puritan movement began during the reign of Queen Elizabeth in England (1558-1603). They believed in strict moral codes, plenty of prayer and close following of New Testament scripture.
As the date of Christ's birth is not in the Gospels the Puritans thought that Christmas was too strongly linked to the Pagan Roman festival and were opposed to all celebration of it, particularly the lively, boozy celebrations inherited from Saturnalia. In 1644 all Christmas activities were banned in England. This included decorating houses with evergreens and eating mince pies.
Modern-day crib outside a church ©
The crib and the nativity play
The telling of the Christmas story has been an important part of the Christianisation of Christmas. One way that the Christmas story has been maintained is through the crib, a model of the manger that Jesus was born in.
The tradition of crib making dates back to at least 400 AD when Pope Sixtus III had one built in Rome. In many parts of Europe in the 18th century crib making was an important craft form. This was not the case in England until much later, suggesting that British Christmases were less Christian than those in other parts of Europe.
The tradition of Nativity plays began in churches where they were used to illustrate the Christmas story as told in the Bible.
Victorian Christmas
After a lull in Christmas celebrations the festival returned with a bang in the Victorian Era (1837-1901). The Victorian Christmas was based on nostalgia for Christmases past. Dickens' A Christmas Carol (1843) inspired ideals of what Christmas should be, capturing the imagination of the British and American middle classes. This group had money to spend and made Christmas a special time for the family.
Detail from a Victorian Christmas card ©
The Victorians gave us the kind of Christmas we know today, reviving the tradition of carol singing, borrowing the practice of card giving from St. Valentine's day and popularising the Christmas tree.
Although the Victorians attempted to revive the Christmas of medieval Britain, many of the new traditions were Anglo-American inventions. From the 1950s, carol singing was revived by ministers, particularly in America, who incorporated them into Christmas celebrations in the Church. Christmas cards were first sent by the British but the Americans, many of whom were on the move and away from their families, picked up the practice because of a cheap postal service and because it was a good way of keeping in contact with people at home.
Christmas trees were a German tradition, brought to Britain and popularised by the royal family. Prince Albert first introduced the Christmas tree into the royal household in Britain in 1834. He was given a tree as a gift by the Queen of Norway which was displayed in Trafalgar Square.
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Modern celebration
Advent
Christmas service at a church ©
Advent is the period of preparation for the celebration of the birth of Jesus and begins on Sunday nearest to 30th November. The word Advent comes from the Latin adventus meaning coming. Traditionally it is a penitential season but is no longer kept with the strictness of Lent and Christians are no longer required to fast.
Advent wreaths are popular especially in churches. They are made with fir branches and four candles. A candle is lit each Sunday during Advent.
Christmas Day is the Christian festival most celebrated by non-churchgoers, and churches are often completely full for the service late on Christmas Eve.
Father Christmas
An important part of today's Christmas is the myth of Father Christmas (called Santa Claus in America). His origins are in Christian and European tradition. But the visual image of Father Christmas that we have today is the one popularised by American card-makers in the Victorian era.
Traditionally, Father Christmas visits houses at midnight on Christmas Eve, coming down the chimney to leave presents. Children hang up stockings - nowadays usually large socks with Christmas patterns knitted into them - for Father Christmas to fill with little toys and presents ('stocking fillers').
A Dutch Father Christmas ©
Some traditions surrounding Father Christmas pre-date Christianity. His sleigh, pulled by reindeer, is left over from Scandinavian mythology. The practice of leaving mince pies and a glass of milk or brandy for him on Christmas Eve may be a remnant of Pagan sacrifices made to mark the end of winter and the coming of spring.
The USA has the figure of Santa Claus, whose name comes from Saint Nicholas via the Dutch Sinterklaas. Saint Nicholas of Myra (a location in modern-day Turkey) is, among other things, the patron saint of sailors. A famous story has him anonymously delivering bags of gold coins to a man who could not afford dowry for his daughters to get married. Some versions of this story even have Saint Nick dropping the bags down the chimney.
In modern times the figures of Father Christmas and Santa Claus are indistinguishable.
Christmas today
Today, only around 60 percent of people in the UK are Christian but Christmas remains the biggest holiday in the calendar. It is a largely secular holiday, with the main element the exchange of gifts on Christmas day.
Chocolate Father Christmases ©
In previous centuries the Church worried about Pagan influence on the Christian festival, but today ethical considerations are focused on the over-commercialism of the holiday, with the average person in the UK spending hundreds of pounds on Christmas-related purchases (an average of £384 in 2007, according to a Halifax report).
Protests against consumerism have been made by Christians and non-Christians such as 'Buy Nothing Christmas', encouraging people to spend time with their families instead of spending money on them.
With carol concerts, Christmas trees, office parties, midnight mass, and television programmes, today's festival has elements of the Pagan, Christian and folk traditions.
Christmas remains a time to forget about the long dark days and celebrate with friends and family.


A little more.....

Yes indeed ,yer could in a realtive sense take gift giving back to the three kings. But the santa claus or saint nic- and the other names old father christmas goes by became myth through a belief . The idea or notion of Santa Claus is moreso a tall tale told to children like the easter bunny who comes around at the said date in history the resurrection happened. So ,it about the children and teachings.

It is those stores what robbed the intended meanings out of what developed in time through cultures and cultural exchanges.Commercialization. The only reason yer can find religious oriented goods geared to Christmas is because it sells. Otherwise it wouldn't be there. Santa Claus would become the god of profit worshiped by all the blood suckers throughout the month of December and on into fiscal heaven or the dooms of fiscal hell ='s poor sales.


What people have left is find the good in it and make the most of the good in it.
Shopping sensibly in moderation is the good of it. It teachs sensibility and restraint.

 

 Good read Mrs P. and explains the Christmas as was to the Christmas of today and even Niagra  managed to spring a Chicken into the thread as apposed to a Turkey  
So lets leave it there then,to those of you who have read this thread that are of a Religious persuasion and not just Christianity may a peace go with you all, and to the rest who have read this and embrace the commercial aspects of this period and covert your New P.S.4 or X.Box ,  may you all and I mean you all just enjoy the day and enjoy your Christmas in the way you each find fitting to you.

MERRY CHRISTMAS         

Lovely post MrB

I put the info up last night - found a few bits quite interesting. 

  I think the real meaning of Christmas is what Christmas really means to each and every individual. That means it it is up to you to find it's meaning within yourself.
And when you put it all together connecting up all the dots you must than express yerself . The next step is to share what you came to know or realize. Because if you do share it and someone other shares yer point of view and finds deep meaning in it, than that is what you call exchanging . It's a gift. What that means is it is indeed the thought that counts. And just the same as the plates are passed around the table for filling and extra helpings at the feast,so does what it all really means.

Because it is after all,all about sharing isn't it ? Must we really look for what we think express's what we think and or feel in a card wut says Have A Very Merry Christmas !

When in fact what you really want to say is within you and all you need do look within and find it ?

Tis The Season,
The gift of expression belongs to each and every person ,you got it,so use it !

Happy Holidays and you are of the natural wonders of the world.

   Well said Niagra  and my peace go out to all the lands of the World, and here's hoping that the coming new year brings an end to all the suffering that now stains the World, the peace  come's from within us all.