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niagarafalls
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PostSubject: SHOULD WE OR SHOULDN'T WE ?   Tue Aug 27, 2013 6:19 pm

:btshp: :sub: :fheli2: 
?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

:ram:


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PostSubject: Re: SHOULD WE OR SHOULDN'T WE ?   Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:12 am

It depends how much oil they have for the Yanks...

If they go in...we not be far behind I fear..

I'd hate to be the one to make the decision..
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PostSubject: Re: SHOULD WE OR SHOULDN'T WE ?   Wed Aug 28, 2013 4:11 am

I hope we don't...

A chemical attack is going to create a massive knock-on effect and aren't enough innocents injured, maimed and killed by gunfire and bombs? No
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PostSubject: Re: SHOULD WE OR SHOULDN'T WE ?   Wed Aug 28, 2013 5:53 am

I think WE should mind our own country and its citizens - which we hav'nt cracked yet - and let them get on with it - though I guess there'll be many countries willing to sell/give arms to prolong the misery.
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PostSubject: Re: SHOULD WE OR SHOULDN'T WE ?   Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:55 pm

a life is a life is a life...no matter wot country it is
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PostSubject: Re: SHOULD WE OR SHOULDN'T WE ?   Wed Aug 28, 2013 2:18 pm

wut about Iran,Russia and China not to mention N. korea is on the band wagon. 

There is a much larger picture to this. 

so what happens if we do ?

This is another joint effort thing -nato -England,France and the United States have war ships positioned in a battle readyness state. And the round up has started. 

Is this bigger than say Libya ? How Gadaffi went down. 
The joint combined effort. what will Italy do -obstain perhaps ?

Have yer say cof:
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PostSubject: Re: SHOULD WE OR SHOULDN'T WE ?   Wed Aug 28, 2013 8:53 pm

I agree that some thing needs to be done for the people of Syria,but not giving them arms or getting involved with Military action,the U.N should get involved by way of giving the Countrys surrounding Syria that are sheltering the refugees from the conflict a helping hand to feed and shelter those that have fled with their familys for safty,as for the waring sides,it would seem that the rebels have our backing as against the Govt forces,but fighting with in the rebels are fighters from Al Qaida etc,i read some were some thing that said what is the Difference between the Al Qaida we are fighting in Malowi and else where and the Al Qaida we support in Syria ??????? Much is made of the chemical attack in Syria every one blameing each other for it,the guilt has come down on the Govt side,but are they guilty of the crime,it could be the Islamists trying out home made chemical bombs for possible use on our streets or American streets in the future,i see that Saudi has backed the U.N to take action,i wonder why?????? seeing as how they are funding Madrases which have been proven to be places which indoctrinate the young in places like Pakistan and no dout fund the arming of such groups by way of the back door from oil money they get from the west etc,it would deffo be in their interests if the west got involved,i think we should keep well away from military action,and let the Arabs sort it out them selfs,that way we can not be blamed like we all ways seem to be blamed for killing civilains when we do get involved in such actions,let Sauidi dirty its hands its got the cash and the hard ware so let them do some thing to help their so called Brothers,let their men die not ours,why should any more of our young mens lives and blood be spilt on Islamic soil.
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PostSubject: Re: SHOULD WE OR SHOULDN'T WE ?   Thu Aug 29, 2013 10:38 am

64% of the Danish population are against going in, but the Danish goverment is ready. (not that the danes have anykind of a big army)
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PostSubject: Re: SHOULD WE OR SHOULDN'T WE ?   Fri Aug 30, 2013 2:53 am

It appears Russia has positioned two war ships in the hot spot. 
The UN inspection team will be leaving one day early ,that being Saturday and a full accounting of their findings will no doubt be given over the weeks end. The indication there is that this thing will carry on throughout the week end into next week befor a difinitive decision is made on a military strike.

This further indicates there is a lot going on behind the sceans down the avenues of rounding up international support .

Touch and go is the key words of the day.

cof:
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PostSubject: Re: SHOULD WE OR SHOULDN'T WE ?   Fri Aug 30, 2013 9:27 pm

Well the U.K is out of taking part in any military action and so is Germany, Cameron is not a happy bunny that the vote went against it.

Not only that we haven't exactly got a strong defense here now since Cameron made 1000s of our forces redundant.

I think Obama is going for military action though Rolling Eyes
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PostSubject: Re: SHOULD WE OR SHOULDN'T WE ?   Sat Aug 31, 2013 1:09 am

The olive branchs have been burnt as fuel,and the peace doves have all been shot and eaten,there will never be peace untill those dogs of war are rounded up and returned to the dog pound,the lions and Hyhinas gather in the Med and the vultures look expectantly for a free feed,is this the final war between Good and Evil as fortold Neutral Neutral
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PostSubject: Re: SHOULD WE OR SHOULDN'T WE ?   Sat Aug 31, 2013 1:28 am

I always feel cold and come out in goose pimples because each time there is talk of war etc it makes me wonder is this now the time that nuclear missles will be used....it's frightening Rolling Eyes
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PostSubject: Re: SHOULD WE OR SHOULDN'T WE ?   Sat Aug 31, 2013 8:58 am

I think its the terrorists - sorry - "patriots" - who are guilty of this  atrocity - but its ok - we'l get foreign governments to be responsible for blowing up our head of state....and then pay for rebuilding our country.

Committing these attacks under the noses of VISITORS is like a noisy neighbour having a rave when he knows the sound equipment has gone in - it dos'nt happen

Evil or Very Mad
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PostSubject: Re: SHOULD WE OR SHOULDN'T WE ?   Sat Aug 31, 2013 9:02 am

Rolling Eyes That sounds about right Pandora i think the west are probly being played for fools,using Human lives as bait,and it looks like that trap is ready to be sprung cool2
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PostSubject: Re: SHOULD WE OR SHOULDN'T WE ?   Sat Aug 31, 2013 9:07 am

The U.K will no doubt get stick from other countries for not joining
forces with them.
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PostSubject: Re: SHOULD WE OR SHOULDN'T WE ?   Sat Aug 31, 2013 1:56 pm

Touch and go is still the key words in the decision making process. As of yet there are no defining terms and there must be a definitive end result if there is going to be a strike.

So far it was said there will be no boots on the ground and that it is not about a regime change but it has not been made clear what it is all about in so far as the desired end result. 

In military tactical terms that is all about the old game plan.Whats the plan ?And what will come of it ? 

It has been said the thing is about a shot acrossed the bow,rather a severe warning shot. 

But the question is ,is there a thing called a decisive victory in the plan which at current is being worked up.The old round table talks.

There seems to be a show of support for somewhat of a limited  strike although support for any type of strike is divided .Is there such a thing as a limited strike? after all the launching of missiles is an act of war.In fact a declaration of war. And is the issues at hand. International law.


However a very serious international law has been broken.

What than are consequences ?

Quagmire.
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PostSubject: Re: SHOULD WE OR SHOULDN'T WE ?   Sun Sep 01, 2013 4:21 am

President Obama will be speaking publicly on the matters at hand in just about 10 minutes. The key words touch and go will be clairified so to speak in his address. Touch and go is a bit of a step up from watch and wait. But waiting for positive proff's is the hold up in this never ending pipe line extravaganza.

In so far as who done it, which is the the root in the quagmire ,it seems it would be wise to consider the defectors and the rate of defection regards to those in the regime who change sides. 

Sabotage

The rebels could have done or one who is about to defect may have. Yes indeed it does become wacky in possibilities.

In the pipe line of events unfolding the really question is ,what is it really all about ?

Because as it stands ,nobody seems to know in fact what actually went down and what the reasons are. 

All that can be said is chemical wepons have been used-but by who exactly  and for what reason.

Is it than a trap ?
Or is the act a reaction of war being hell ?
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PostSubject: Re: SHOULD WE OR SHOULDN'T WE ?   Sun Sep 01, 2013 12:37 pm

So's unless congress rush's back from vacation it looks as though it will be at least a week befer the congress puts it to a vote. 

And so the strike is now in the laps of congress. 

So it is now a delayed decision. 

Some people see it as a reversal -since it appeared the strike was imminent and set to happen to the order of the immediate. 

Well, least we know a do nothing congress has to actually do something now for better or worse. 

Shall be interesting to hear what kind of stuff comes out next week . 

Constituencies
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PostSubject: Re: SHOULD WE OR SHOULDN'T WE ?   Mon Sep 02, 2013 4:17 am

So, the news is full of stuff about president Obama's reversing the problem into the laps of congress .Congress is in vacation recess and is not do back untill Sept. 9th.,that'd be in about 10 days.  It is highly unlikely a emergency secession will be called, so it will be ongoing in topic for at least a few weeks. 

The congress must put it the vote through debate on the congressional floor. Secretary of state John Kerry believes the congress will do the right thing in his words. 

The right thing in shallow wording is approving a strike but there is no clear definition of just what the right thing actually is.This is in effect a bouncing ball. 

It s believed by some or many that obama'a decision to seek the approval of the congress which falls within constitutional guide lines -war powers act all that ,going back to the end of the fall of the Nixon adminstration a point in history befer Nixon's resignation where upon congress was stripping the president of powers and in particular the presidents powers to send troops onto forign soil or military hardware such as cruise missles aka declare war or intervention without the approval of congress. And so congress  technically has the power to say yea or nay .That was all about nakedifying or stripping the president of powers.But than came the partiot act after 9/11/2001 . Patriot act -hence technically.

Certain powers were restored to the presidents powers.aka the military industrial complex and the oil dollar.

So, here we have a wise decision where the president took it to congress. 

But,what we also have on a global scale is a surprise attack.

What they can prepare and did prepare for is an imminent strike,what they can't prepare for is the unknown. Empty buildings and key individuals safely tucked away .
That would have left the brunt of the damages directly on the people. 

And so now it's the they thing-what will they do ? But they are not just the U.S. congress- they is THEY- They are there befer sand after the prsident is elected ,They are befer and after,they are always there.Indeed plusible deniability

And so now it must be realized those they's and whos and what they want. 

Militarially those they's must present some kind of a planned strategy with a well plannned military political and diplomatic outcome.The three oh's and woo's -war and politics.-aka greater complications.

This of course bring to the letter head ,jist what is the right thing to do.
What is or will be outcome and what will come of it. 

One thing Obama promised on the campaign trail is transparency and the root to transparencty in this or these issues is now set to motion .The bottom line is those They's do not own the government.

Those theys are world wide and none of those they's know what to expect in the weeks ahead or the the next 10 days for that matter.

And that is the surprise attack.

Constituiencies. 

If it's a go ,it a go all the way,those are the stakes. All those they's know it wherever in the world they are.

They must wait to see same as everybody else.

The intensity of uncertainty or that of not knowing .







And so the big picture vaguely comes to focus.
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PostSubject: Re: SHOULD WE OR SHOULDN'T WE ?   Mon Sep 02, 2013 7:39 am

So the flying tubes of death are held back for a while longer,but when and if they are unleashed,unto just who are they told to go for,the concensess is to go for Assads men and leave the rebels alone,was Assads men rearly Guilty of said crime or not,the only proof so far is that syrin gas was used and people died,of that there is no doubt,the doubt comes as to who unleashed this cowards weapon of murder,it could easly be the work of some elimeants fighting on the side of the rebels namely the fundamentalist like Al Quida and others who have motives of their own that would be rearly well served if they could get the U.S and any others to take out Assads men for them,which would make it dam easy for them to pursue their own agenders,and we all know that,their agenders are not in the wests best interrests,i think every one should draw back from what could be an all mighty mistake to just go like a Bull at a Gate gun ho into war,let the major powers stay well out of this conflict,let the Arabs sort their own dirty washing out them selfs,why is it that every time those in middle east etc start their wars they then call on the west to send in their troops and hard ware and spill our blood for them,we should only get involved in so much as to provide assistance to the refugees that have fled to neighbouring Countrys and leave the waring factions to sort out their own destinys.cool2
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PostSubject: Re: SHOULD WE OR SHOULDN'T WE ?   Mon Sep 02, 2013 12:55 pm

Already the uncertainty or that of not knowing has taken it's effects. Assad has publically claimed that this is the begining of America's slow retreat thus claiming victory but,at the same time there is troop movement ordered by Assad so clearly the message sent to the those people was a false front. 
Assad's people do not know what will come to be and this time there is no place to directly point . 

That's the tactical surprise of the attack. There is no degree of certainty for those they's over there to count on. And those they's worry about all the international community theys because those they's now have time to consider and reconsider the facts as those facts come into clarity.

The they's in Iran were more or less counting on a strike in hopes of that creating political unrest world wide and at the same time Iranian generals seeming to edge on the process. 
What you call political monopoly.Sanctions and all that.


The rebels say support us or stay out of it. 

Russia now wonders what it all come down to,and so again uncertainty ,that of now knowing what to expect.
China the same.

The thing of it is can the truth become a matter of global public awareness.I mean who's afraid of a little thing called Truth ?

Wait and see ,give it time is what came out of Russia and China -Do they really want truth ? Do they want it to come out ?

Some things are predictable and some things are not. 
Uncertinty has set in and taken hold. The surprise attack has worked and will keep working. 

This is a very different kind of missel launch. 
Uncertainty has been spread around far and wide.
and yes indeed uncertainty does have it's
 psychological effects.

It is after all , about psychological warfare.Call that the high velocity exchange that filters around the globe.It's not about gas.

Make no mistake the U.S. congress too feels the uncertainty.After all one may know how one may vote but one cannot say how all those they's will vote or what the outcome will be.

There are however theys that are confident .
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PostSubject: Re: SHOULD WE OR SHOULDN'T WE ?   Mon Sep 02, 2013 10:42 pm

Its said that documeanted proof of were and when and by whom the gas was launched from and by who is in U.S. hands,let those in the power seats share with those of other power seats namely Russia,china,and Europe etc this body of proof,then every one can come to a unanamous conclusion of the facts,the truth,thus relaxing the stalemate and mistrustful looks by all major powers involved in this stand off,i still am of the opinion that no one get involved in a strike,what would be the point,just another barrarge of death aimed were so much death has landed befor,like i said befor and is echoed by others on the news that a strike against Assad would no doubt do imence damage to his forces,but at the same time make it easyer for the rebels pluss Al Qaeda and other Terrorist groups that have taken up arms on the rebels side in this fight,to then achive there own seperate agenders,which we all know very well would not sit well with the west,it just would give these groups yet more room to spread their wings,it would how ever do the rebels cause a lot of good if they forced these groups to leave the fight,but if they did then Assad would then be in possion to walk all over them,the only sensible thing to do would be to let the Arabs themselfs sort out this problem,Saudie etc have the money,the hardware,the men,the air force but do they have the will to do so,Arab blood by Arab blood,on Arab land,then the west can not be blamed for the resulting blood shed like it has in past Arab conflicts,and our young men and women need not shed their lifes for some one elses war.cool2
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PostSubject: Re: SHOULD WE OR SHOULDN'T WE ?   Tue Sep 03, 2013 3:54 am

{The Surprise Attack}

Divide to conquer .The road to a practical solution is contained within the divisional realms. Russia wants to see what there is and claims there isn't anything at the same time. That's division.On one hand they say there is nothing there in so far as undeniable proof's and on the other they say they must see what is there if it is there.

Russia wants to see it first befor everybody sees it. 
Why is that ? Where as both Russia and China clearly made it known both countries insist on waiting to find out more about the facts,and waiting for those facts is just what Russia and China will do as was requested. Everybody will come to know at the same time. That;s the element of surprise.

Just because it was said -No Boots On The Ground does not mean the whole thing will not be booted up.

Rushing in there launching a strike was bad advice . Global support just wasn't there at the time. 

What is there now is uncertainty and that of not knowing has it's effects. The key words in the now is It Takes More Than Two To Tango.

Evidently the evidence is there but is it strong enough to convince all that need be convinced ?

That for one is the daunting question -it is all about that which remains unknown . 

They can prepare for the imminent strike ,but they cannot prepare for that which is unknown .

What Will They Do ? That is the question.

The problem within the problem now for those who may very well be on the receving ends is what happens if those they's come togather and resolve the issues at hand.

Do they have a strong enough case to present ?

One sure fire way to get to it is to put it all on high flame and bring to the boiling point and from there sort through it.

And it takes time. All must wait. That is after all what Russia and China wanted to begin with. Sept. 9 and so on and on.
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PostSubject: Re: SHOULD WE OR SHOULDN'T WE ?   Tue Sep 03, 2013 7:29 am

The war ships are in the  Med,the rebels are getting exited,the tools of death are assembled,the waiting begins,the nails are being bitten by all cool2
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PostSubject: Re: SHOULD WE OR SHOULDN'T WE ?   Tue Sep 03, 2013 1:55 pm

Now than word has it that intelligence reports  did exist brfor the launching of those gas bombs 3 days prior to the assult. That means according to spy reports -it was known what Assad's regime was going to do and clearly it was done. 

When bin Ladin was taken down after it went down president Obama said in a public address directing the statement to the enemy ,what he said was let it be known "we can touch you."

Satellite surveillance watch what goes down turns to touch .Kind of a think mobile when watching global.

Why than didn't those they's either stop it or at least forewarn the rebels-and the peoples in the areas or were those rebels told of the impending launch ?
Well now think like a cop- even if you know the robber will rob somebody some place at or about some particular time ,can a copper bust the robber for robbery befer the robber  does the robbery ?

That answers in accordnance to law as it is ,is no.

Why than or wuts the hold up in so far as information sharing ,but ahh, dat's da question.

Well, all that's about information gathering which falls under the heading of state secrets. 

But here's the real question- if that is true what other they's could have or would have known ? Did Russia ? did China ? did Iran ? or even N. Korea ? You see who all knew  about it ? As was said those they's are all over the world -only mentioned a few countries here. 

And as was said everybody finds out at the same time-no playing favoriates . And information gathering still goes on and will continue to ,it's going to be a very long two weeks or so ahead.

Same question though-should we or shouldn't we ? We takes on a very different meaning as information continues to trickel in .

And there are surprises in there -some of those theys need to know when to hold up ,know when to fold up ,know when to walk away and know when to run. You never count your winnings when yer sitt'en at the table ,ther'll be time enough for counting when the deal'ens done.
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